Ketua MK: Atheis dan Komunis Diperbolehkan

[posd1]

Wah klo begitu yang saya tangkap dari "musyawarah" selama ini yang salah..
Sori..



Inti dari yang saya mau katakan adalah "Pancasila adalah ideologi buatan manusia yang tidak lepas dari kesalahan"..
Jadi wajar klo ada beberapa kesalahan di dalam perumusannya ataupun pelaksanaannya..
Contohnya sila ke-1 yang menurut saya cacat didalam pelaksanaan, bahkan sepertinya sejak Indonesia berdiri..

Klo Posd mau konsisten, seharusnya semua agama bisa menjadi agama resmi Indonesia apabila mengakui "adanya Tuhan yang Esa"..
Dan pemerintah tidak berhak mengintervensi agama terhadap Tuhan yang Maha Esa yang dianut seseorang, termasuk mengkotak-kotakan agama menjadi "agama resmi" dan "agama tidak resmi"..

Ketidaksetujuan saya didalam pelaksanaan sila ke 1 sama dengan ketidaksetujuan Posd didalam pelaksanaan sila ke 5..
Posd jangan menggunakan standar ganda ya..



Ya tidak bisa begitu Posd, itu namanya cuci tangan..
Bukan nya kata Posd pemimpin kita itu hasil musyawarah?
Dan Posd ikut dalam musyawarah itu kan?

Apapun hasil yang keluar itu merupakan tanggung jawab dari semua rakyat, termasuk Posd..



Memang musyawarah mufakat, tapi tidak diwakili oleh semua etnis, suku, dan budaya di Indonesia..
Makanya menimbulkan efek di kemudian hari..

Tapi saya memaklumi apabila mengingat kondisi Indonesia pada saat itu..

Sekadar tambahan, AGAMA TIDAK ADA HUBUNGAN DENGAN MORAL..
Dalam arti, orang beragama belum tentu bermoral dan orang bermoral juga belum tentu beragama..

Saya pribadi lebih mengharapkan Indonesia dipenuhi orang bermoral daripada orang beragama..

- Sejelek-jeleknya Pancasila, masih lebih jelek ateis kali. ateis lebih tua dan kolot dari Pancasila.

- Seorang hakim melakukan cuci tangan adalah hal yang wajar. Jikalau hakim tersebut sudah berusaha untuk menolong terdakwa. Tetapi terdakwa tidak berniat ditolong. Baca aja sejarah hakim, mereka boleh melakukan cuci tangan.

- Sekali lagi Indonesia adalah negara demokrasi pancasila. Bukan negara semau lu aja. Yang melakukan musyawarah adalah DPR. Bukan semua rakyat.

[zenie]

- Sejelek-jeleknya Pancasila, masih lebih jelek ateis kali. ateis lebih tua dan kolot dari Pancasila.

Saya ga bilang Pancasila jelek, saya cuma bilang penerapan sila ke-1 itu cacat..
Bahkan cacatnya sejak pendirian bangsa ini..

Akibatnya, negara Indonesia terlihat sebagai bangsa yang "banci" dalam urusan agama..
Bukan negara agama tapi mengkotak-kotakkan menjadi agama resmi dan agama non-resmi, dan mengharuskan publikasi agama..

- Sekali lagi Indonesia adalah negara demokrasi pancasila. Bukan negara semau lu aja. Yang melakukan musyawarah adalah DPR. Bukan semua rakyat.

Di satu pihak Posd menyerahkan semua nasib bangsa kepada DPR, tapi di lain pihak Posd mencaci para pemimpin dan DPR karena korupsi..
Itu namanya standar ganda..

- Seorang hakim melakukan cuci tangan adalah hal yang wajar. Jikalau hakim tersebut sudah berusaha untuk menolong terdakwa. Tetapi terdakwa tidak berniat ditolong. Baca aja sejarah hakim, mereka boleh melakukan cuci tangan.

Ditambah Posd merasa tidak bersalah karena yang terpilih menjadi pemimpin bukan pilihan Posd, itu namanya cuci tangan..
Klo semua rakyat melakukan cuci tangan, yang ada Indonesia menjadi tambah kacau karena semua hanya saling menyalahkan..

Klo Posd tidak percaya dengan pemimpin, ya Posd maju jadi pemimpin..

Saya kira menjadi pemimpin itu adalah hal yang susah, apalagi di dunia politik yang tidak jujur dan banyak iri hati..
Jadi saya tidak mau menjadi orang sok pintar yang sedikit-sedikit menghina pemimpin seperti yang Posd lakukan..

[posd1]

Saya ga bilang Pancasila jelek, saya cuma bilang penerapan sila ke-1 itu cacat..
Bahkan cacatnya sejak pendirian bangsa ini..

Akibatnya, negara Indonesia terlihat sebagai bangsa yang "banci" dalam urusan agama..
Bukan negara agama tapi mengkotak-kotakkan menjadi agama resmi dan agama non-resmi, dan mengharuskan publikasi agama..



Di satu pihak Posd menyerahkan semua nasib bangsa kepada DPR, tapi di lain pihak Posd mencaci para pemimpin dan DPR karena korupsi..
Itu namanya standar ganda..



Ditambah Posd merasa tidak bersalah karena yang terpilih menjadi pemimpin bukan pilihan Posd, itu namanya cuci tangan..
Klo semua rakyat melakukan cuci tangan, yang ada Indonesia menjadi tambah kacau karena semua hanya saling menyalahkan..

Klo Posd tidak percaya dengan pemimpin, ya Posd maju jadi pemimpin..

Saya kira menjadi pemimpin itu adalah hal yang susah, apalagi di dunia politik yang tidak jujur dan banyak iri hati..
Jadi saya tidak mau menjadi orang sok pintar yang sedikit-sedikit menghina pemimpin seperti yang Posd lakukan..

- Jika anda mengatakan Pancasila cacat apa bedanya dengan mengatakan Pancasila jelek? Gak perlu anda banyak cerita mengenai pancasila. apa sumbangan anda pada waktu perjuangan kemerdekaan? Tentu orang yang berjuang dan berjasa yang merumuskan Pancasila bukan seenak jidat mau merubah Pancasila. Tidak kah anda malu dengan sikap anda itu?

- Sudah pasti harus menyerahkan kepada DPR, di semua negara demokratis , dll semuanya begitu. Nah jika mereka gak jujur tentu saja harus dimaki. Logikanya mana coba?

- Anda salah jika semua rakyat seperti Posd maka sudah tidak akan ada yang salah pilih lagi. Jadi kenapa harus cuci tangan sampe bisa kacau?

- Posd tidaklah sok pintar tetapi hanya menyuarakan jeritan rakyat. Hanya memperjuangkan hak hak rakyat. Inilah demokrasi, dimana menyuarakan asipirasi rakyat itu sah. Yang ingin menghilangkan hak inilah orang yang biasa kita bilang ngeyel.

[jambronk]

Ini namanya sambil nyelam minum air. Ngerti gak? Mencari pekerjaan dengan gaji yang besar sekalian menyebarkan agama Islam.

Penyataan anda sama sekali gak masuk akal karena Australia bukan dibangun oleh orang ateis, yang bikin sistem pemerintahan australia bukan ateis. So what gitu lo kalau julia ateis. Apa anggota partainya semua ateis? julia itu cuma ngoceh sana, ngoceh sini, yang jalanin itu menterinya.[/B]

wakakak...ngeles aja nih menyebarkan agama kok minta suaka aya-aya wae.

Kalau emang niat dari dakwah kenapa ga datengnya naik pesawat terbang trus mendarat deh di sydney tapi kok ini pake transit di pantai pangandaran trus sampe ditangkapi petugas imigrasi dan nginep di tempat penampungan imigran gelap. hihihi...
Ada buktinya ga terjadi peningkatan agama islam hasil dakwah imigran gelap di Australia? kayaknya di Aussie banyakan yg ateis deh sekarang...
Sekalian tolong kasih bukti Ateis merusak moral sesuai klaim/teori lu bro!
Awas jangan ngeles lagi!

[posd1]

wakakak...ngeles aja nih menyebarkan agama kok minta suaka aya-aya wae.

Kalau emang niat dari dakwah kenapa ga datengnya naik pesawat terbang trus mendarat deh di sydney tapi kok ini pake transit di pantai pangandaran trus sampe ditangkapi petugas imigrasi dan nginep di tempat penampungan imigran gelap. hihihi...
Ada buktinya ga terjadi peningkatan agama islam hasil dakwah imigran gelap di Australia? kayaknya di Aussie banyakan yg ateis deh sekarang...
Sekalian tolong kasih bukti Ateis merusak moral sesuai klaim/teori lu bro!
Awas jangan ngeles lagi!

- Aja bisa diles ya? baru tau aq

- Bukti ateis merusak moral ya? Pertanyaan yang menarik ini. Apakah ateis benar merusak moral atau tidak? Bukankah orang yang beragama juga banyak yang rusak moralnya? Lantas apakah orang ateis tidak rusak moralnya? Iya ternyata sama saja moral mereka juga rusak.

Sulit sekali rasanya mencari bukti ateis merusak moral di negara yang Pancasilais. Apalagi pada waktu jaman damai, susah sekali menemukan bukti kejahatan ateis. Karena itu maka kita harus melihat sejarah dimana masa perang di negara yang dipimpin oleh ateis

[posd1]

Reversing Atheists' Critiques of Religious Violence:

A common criticism which atheists raise against religion is how violent religion and religious believers have been in the past. People have slaughtered each other in large numbers either because of differences in religious beliefs or because of other differences which are further justified and intensified through religious rhetoric. Either way, religion has a lot of blood on its hands. Can the same be said for atheists and atheism? Haven't atheists killed more people in the name of atheism than religious theists have killed in the name of their religion? No, because atheism isn't a philosophy or ideology.
How Many Have Been Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?:

None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness. Communists Don't Kill in the Name of Atheism...
Hitler Was an Atheist Who Killed Millions in the Name of Atheism, Secularism:

A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God. Hitler frequently referenced God and Christianity both in public and private. The Nazi Party Program explicitly endorsed and promoted Christianity in the party platform. Millions of Christians in Germany not only enthusiastically supported and endorsed Hitler and the Nazis, but did so on the basis of common Christian beliefs and attitudes. Hitler Was Not an Atheist...
Isn't Atheism the Same as Communism? Doesn't Atheism Lead to Communism?:

A common complaint made by theists, typically those of the fundamentalist variety, is that atheism and/or humanism are essentially socialist or communist in nature. Thus, atheism and humanism should be rejected since socialism and communism are evil. Evidence indicates that bigotry and prejudice towards atheists in America is due in no small part to anti-communist activism by conservatives Christians in America, so this claimed connection has had serious consequences for American atheists. Atheism and Communism are Not the Same...
Militant Atheists are Atheist Fundamentalists, a New Atheism:

There seems to be an increasing number of people responding to atheist critiques of religion or theism by labeling the person a "fundamentalist" atheist. The label is problematic because there are no essential or "fundamental" beliefs for an atheist to be "fundamentalist" about. So why do people use the label? Why do so many people feel that the label is appropriate? This seems to be mostly due to misunderstandings about and prejudice against fundamentalism and the label cannot be applied to atheists. Fundamentalist Atheism / Atheistic Fundamentalism Does Not Exist...
Atheists are Intolerant for Criticizing Religion, Theism:

There are several myths here, all tightly intertwined for the apparent purpose of getting atheists to cease making uncomfortable and unwelcome criticisms of religion and theism. Religious believers, mostly Christians, are responding to atheistic critiques of religion by claiming that vocal, unapologetic atheists are analogous to religious terrorists and that criticism of religion is a form of religious intolerance. The implication is that believers shouldn't have to be faced with criticism. This is wrong: religion and theism aren't owed any deference or respect. Criticism of Religion & Theism is Not Intolerance...
Being Irreligious is Risky, Short-Sighted Behavior Like Crime:

Many associate atheism with anti-social and even criminal behavior, but such assertions are usually little more than that: bare assertions without substantiating evidence or arguments. The most people offer may be question-begging claims about religion and god being necessary for moral behavior. Here, however, we have a new twist which claims that there is a physiological, biological reason behind people - or at least men - rejecting religion and gods. Unfortunately, it's rife with flaws. Being Irreligious is Not Like Criminal Behavior...
If People Fail to Believe in God, They Will Believe in Anything:

Many religious theists think that their God creates or otherwise provides a set of objective standards against which they can measure all their beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, etc. Without their god, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly differentiate true from false beliefs, moral from immoral behaviors, proper from improper attitudes. Atheists who don't believe in any gods are thus capable of believing and doing absolutely anything, having nothing at all to hold them back. Will Atheists Believe in Anything?

[posd1]

Reversing Atheists' Critiques of Religious Violence:

A common criticism which atheists raise against religion is how violent religion and religious believers have been in the past. People have slaughtered each other in large numbers either because of differences in religious beliefs or because of other differences which are further justified and intensified through religious rhetoric. Either way, religion has a lot of blood on its hands. Can the same be said for atheists and atheism? Haven't atheists killed more people in the name of atheism than religious theists have killed in the name of their religion? No, because atheism isn't a philosophy or ideology.
How Many Have Been Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?:

None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness. Communists Don't Kill in the Name of Atheism...
Hitler Was an Atheist Who Killed Millions in the Name of Atheism, Secularism:

A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God. Hitler frequently referenced God and Christianity both in public and private. The Nazi Party Program explicitly endorsed and promoted Christianity in the party platform. Millions of Christians in Germany not only enthusiastically supported and endorsed Hitler and the Nazis, but did so on the basis of common Christian beliefs and attitudes. Hitler Was Not an Atheist...
Isn't Atheism the Same as Communism? Doesn't Atheism Lead to Communism?:

A common complaint made by theists, typically those of the fundamentalist variety, is that atheism and/or humanism are essentially socialist or communist in nature. Thus, atheism and humanism should be rejected since socialism and communism are evil. Evidence indicates that bigotry and prejudice towards atheists in America is due in no small part to anti-communist activism by conservatives Christians in America, so this claimed connection has had serious consequences for American atheists. Atheism and Communism are Not the Same...
Militant Atheists are Atheist Fundamentalists, a New Atheism:

There seems to be an increasing number of people responding to atheist critiques of religion or theism by labeling the person a "fundamentalist" atheist. The label is problematic because there are no essential or "fundamental" beliefs for an atheist to be "fundamentalist" about. So why do people use the label? Why do so many people feel that the label is appropriate? This seems to be mostly due to misunderstandings about and prejudice against fundamentalism and the label cannot be applied to atheists. Fundamentalist Atheism / Atheistic Fundamentalism Does Not Exist...
Atheists are Intolerant for Criticizing Religion, Theism:

There are several myths here, all tightly intertwined for the apparent purpose of getting atheists to cease making uncomfortable and unwelcome criticisms of religion and theism. Religious believers, mostly Christians, are responding to atheistic critiques of religion by claiming that vocal, unapologetic atheists are analogous to religious terrorists and that criticism of religion is a form of religious intolerance. The implication is that believers shouldn't have to be faced with criticism. This is wrong: religion and theism aren't owed any deference or respect. Criticism of Religion & Theism is Not Intolerance...
Being Irreligious is Risky, Short-Sighted Behavior Like Crime:

Many associate atheism with anti-social and even criminal behavior, but such assertions are usually little more than that: bare assertions without substantiating evidence or arguments. The most people offer may be question-begging claims about religion and god being necessary for moral behavior. Here, however, we have a new twist which claims that there is a physiological, biological reason behind people - or at least men - rejecting religion and gods. Unfortunately, it's rife with flaws. Being Irreligious is Not Like Criminal Behavior...
If People Fail to Believe in God, They Will Believe in Anything:

Many religious theists think that their God creates or otherwise provides a set of objective standards against which they can measure all their beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, etc. Without their god, they can't imagine how anyone could possibly differentiate true from false beliefs, moral from immoral behaviors, proper from improper attitudes. Atheists who don't believe in any gods are thus capable of believing and doing absolutely anything, having nothing at all to hold them back. Will Atheists Believe in Anything?

[posd1]

Yang menarik untuk dibahas adalah If people fail to believe in God , they will Believe in Anything. Mereka akan menghalalkan segala cara untuk mencapai tujuan termasuk korupsi, membunuh, memperkosa, menginjak ijak hak orang lain. Anda hanya perlu perang untuk melepaskan serigala dalam hati seorang ateis.

[earsun]

Yang menarik untuk dibahas adalah If people fail to believe in God , they will Believe in Anything. Mereka akan menghalalkan segala cara untuk mencapai tujuan termasuk korupsi, membunuh, memperkosa, menginjak ijak hak orang lain. Anda hanya perlu perang untuk melepaskan serigala dalam hati seorang ateis.

fail to believe in God in a right way, also induces the same things.....
even worse,...
killing, raping, plundering in the name of Him...what an irony

[agatha]

Yang menarik untuk dibahas adalah If people fail to believe in God , they will Believe in Anything. Mereka akan menghalalkan segala cara untuk mencapai tujuan termasuk korupsi, membunuh, memperkosa, menginjak ijak hak orang lain. Anda hanya perlu perang untuk melepaskan serigala dalam hati seorang ateis.

Sepertinya... anda mesti banyak bergaul dengan komunitas lain deeh...
Emangnya anda yakin HINDU DAN BUDHA memiliki istilah "tuhan" or "GOD" ?
Dan apakah anda yakin yang lakukan hal hal yang anda tulis di atas elbih banyak di lakukan oleh oleh mereka yang tidak memiliki istilah "GOD"?
Atau...... justru hal hal tsb lebih banyak di lakukan oleh ORANG YG NGAKU MEMILIKI GOD?