Diskusi tentang Perjalanan Kehidupan

[Swan]

swan,
permainan kata-katamu mau bermuara bahwa...

semua spesies diciptakan langsung dari pencipta ya khan?

Bukan bukan bukan....kenapa sih mas bimbim kayaknya selalu men-judge saya kalau seolah saya pasti bilang gini, pasti bilang gitu...Yang aku tanya kahn gimana tanggapan mas bim2 sbg pro evolutionist? liat aja banyak kok hewan2 yang luar biasa, kesetiaan anjing kucing, kepandaian hewan2 spt lumba2, dan kesedihan hewan yang kehilangan ananknya. Memang saya akui saya termasuk pro creationist, tapi ini kahn tritnya mas bimbim, jadi saya menghargai trit ini, maka nya saya nggak sebut2 soal penciptaan yang tiba2...

[zxc]

yg di bold mirip sifat 1st protosel ya bro...

makanya itu,.....

saya mau tanya, kira2 kenapa manusia justru ingin dengan satu pasangan, padahal sejatinya menganut banyak pasangan?

[bimbim]

Bukan bukan bukan....kenapa sih mas bimbim kayaknya selalu men-judge saya kalau seolah saya pasti bilang gini, pasti bilang gitu...Yang aku tanya kahn gimana tanggapan mas bim2 sbg pro evolutionist? liat aja banyak kok hewan2 yang luar biasa, kesetiaan anjing kucing, kepandaian hewan2 spt lumba2, dan kesedihan hewan yang kehilangan ananknya. Memang saya akui saya termasuk pro creationist, tapi ini kahn tritnya mas bimbim, jadi saya menghargai trit ini, maka nya saya nggak sebut2 soal penciptaan yang tiba2...

ya sudah Swan,

aku tanya sekalian.. kalau menurut creationist..

ada milyaran spesies... dengan ada kesamaan ada perbedaan itu bagaimana menjelaskannya?

[intel]

Permisi pak dosen (Bim Bim)..!

Aku dari kelas ilmu sosial, angkatan 2009, mau ikut kelas Sains, boleh nggak?
Tapi kayaknya sulit, bahasanya terlalu teknis ya, itu kayak punya bro Giggs di #186 (sorry bro, no offense)...
Aku jadi penggembira saja lah...
***intel cari tempat duduk paling belakang***

[Cicilia, FL, + ND, USA]

halo giggs,
welcome di thread Perjalanan Kehidupan..

thx untuk paparan tentang sel cangkok ini..

saya jadi tergerak untuk baca tentang cangkok mencangkok ini...

saya tergerak soal sejauh mana bisa dilakukan, dan apa ada konflik etis dalam hal cangkok sel ini..

besok saya share hasil penelusuran saya...

silahkan partisipasi di thread ini..

Dear bung Bimbim,
I just read the info about Stem Cell.
What is a Stem Cell?
A stem cell is essentially a “blank” cell, capable of becoming another more differentiated cell type in the body, such as a skin cell, a muscle cell, or a nerve cell. Microscopic in size, stem cells are big news in medical and science circles because they can be used to replace or even heal damaged tissues and cells in the body. They can serve as a built-in repair system for the human body, replenishing other cells as long as a person is still alive.
Embryonic Stem Cells
As their name suggests, embryonic stem cells come from living, human embryos. They are harvested from two sources.

• Embryos—Embryonic stem cells are obtained by harvesting living embryos which are generally 5-7 days old. The removal of embryonic stem cells invariably results in the destruction of the embryo.

• Fetuses—Another kind of stem cell called an embryonic germ cell can be obtained from either miscarriages or aborted fetuses.

Adult Stem Cells
The primary role of adult stem cells in humans is to maintain and repair the tissue in which they are found. While we call them adult stem cells, they are more accurately called somatic (from the Greek word soma = body) stem cells, because they come from not only adults, but other sources.

Adult type stem cells come from:

• Umbilical Cords, Placentas and Amniotic Fluid—Adult type stem cells can be derived from various pregnancy-related tissues.

• Adult Tissues—In adults, stem cells are present within various tissues and organ systems. These include the bone marrow, liver, epidermis, retina, skeletal muscle, intestine, brain, dental pulp, and elsewhere. Even fat obtained from liposuction has been shown to contain significant numbers of adult type stem cells.

• Cadavers—Neural stem cells have been removed from specific areas in post-Morten human brains as late as 20 hours following death.

Pros and Cons of Embryonic and Adult Stem Cells
Cell Comparisons: Embryonic vs. Adult
There are significant medical and scientific differences between embryonic and adult stem cell research and therapy. Here is a comparison between the two types, including some of the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Embryonic Stem Cell Advantages
1. Flexible—appear to have the potential to make any cell
2. Immortal—one ES cell line can potentially provide an endless supply of cells with
defined characteristics
3. Availability—embryos from in vitro fertilization clinics

Embryonic Stem Cell Disadvantages
1. Difficult to differentiate uniformly and homogeneously into a target tissue
2. Immunology—ES cells from a random embryo donor are likely to be rejected
after transplantation
3. Tumorous—Capable of forming tumors or promoting tumor formation
4. Destruction of developing human life

Adult Stem Cell Advantages
1. Special adult-type stem cells from bone marrow and from umbilical cord have been
isolated recently which appear to be as flexible as the embryonic type
2. Already somewhat specialized—inducement may be simpler
3. Not immunology—recipients who receive the products of their own stem cells will not experience immune rejection
4. Relative ease of procurement—some adult stem cells are easy to harvest (skin, muscle, marrow, fat), while others may be more difficult to obtain (brain stem cells). Umbilical and placental stem cells are likely to be readily available
5. Non-tumorous—tend not to form tumors
6. No harm done to the donor

Adult Stem Cell Disadvantages
1. Limited quantity—can sometimes be difficult to obtain in large numbers
2. Finite—may not live as long as ES cells in culture
3. Less flexible (with the exception of #1 above)—may be more difficult to reprogram to form other tissue types

Stem Cell Cures—and Failures in Humans
Adult stem cells are a “natural” solution. They naturally exist in our bodies, and they provide a natural repair mechanism for many tissues of our bodies.
They belong in the micro environment of an adult body, while embryonic stem cells belong in the micro environment of the early embryo, not in an adult body, where they tend to cause tumors and immune system reactions.
Most importantly, adult stem cells have already been successfully used in human therapies for many years. As of this moment, NO therapies in humans have ever been successfully carried out using embryonic stem cells. New therapies using adult type stem cells, on the other hand, are being developed all the time.
TREATMENTS FROM ADULT STEM CELLS
Spinal Cord Injury
Leukemia
Parkinson’s Disease
Regards,
Cicilia...

[bimbim]

Dear bung Bimbim,
I just read the info about Stem Cell.
What is a Stem Cell?
A stem cell is essentially a “blank” cell, capable of becoming another more differentiated cell type in the body, such as a skin cell, a muscle cell, or a nerve cell. Microscopic in size, stem cells are big news in medical and science circles because they can be used to replace or even heal damaged tissues and cells in the body. They can serve as a built-in repair system for the human body, replenishing other cells as long as a person is still alive.
Embryonic Stem Cells
As their name suggests, embryonic stem cells come from living, human embryos. They are harvested from two sources.

• Embryos—Embryonic stem cells are obtained by harvesting living embryos which are generally 5-7 days old. The removal of embryonic stem cells invariably results in the destruction of the embryo.

• Fetuses—Another kind of stem cell called an embryonic germ cell can be obtained from either miscarriages or aborted fetuses.

Adult Stem Cells
The primary role of adult stem cells in humans is to maintain and repair the tissue in which they are found. While we call them adult stem cells, they are more accurately called somatic (from the Greek word soma = body) stem cells, because they come from not only adults, but other sources.

Adult type stem cells come from:

• Umbilical Cords, Placentas and Amniotic Fluid—Adult type stem cells can be derived from various pregnancy-related tissues.

• Adult Tissues—In adults, stem cells are present within various tissues and organ systems. These include the bone marrow, liver, epidermis, retina, skeletal muscle, intestine, brain, dental pulp, and elsewhere. Even fat obtained from liposuction has been shown to contain significant numbers of adult type stem cells.

• Cadavers—Neural stem cells have been removed from specific areas in post-Morten human brains as late as 20 hours following death.

Pros and Cons of Embryonic and Adult Stem Cells
Cell Comparisons: Embryonic vs. Adult
There are significant medical and scientific differences between embryonic and adult stem cell research and therapy. Here is a comparison between the two types, including some of the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Embryonic Stem Cell Advantages
1. Flexible—appear to have the potential to make any cell
2. Immortal—one ES cell line can potentially provide an endless supply of cells with
defined characteristics
3. Availability—embryos from in vitro fertilization clinics

Embryonic Stem Cell Disadvantages
1. Difficult to differentiate uniformly and homogeneously into a target tissue
2. Immunology—ES cells from a random embryo donor are likely to be rejected
after transplantation
3. Tumorous—Capable of forming tumors or promoting tumor formation
4. Destruction of developing human life

Adult Stem Cell Advantages
1. Special adult-type stem cells from bone marrow and from umbilical cord have been
isolated recently which appear to be as flexible as the embryonic type
2. Already somewhat specialized—inducement may be simpler
3. Not immunology—recipients who receive the products of their own stem cells will not experience immune rejection
4. Relative ease of procurement—some adult stem cells are easy to harvest (skin, muscle, marrow, fat), while others may be more difficult to obtain (brain stem cells). Umbilical and placental stem cells are likely to be readily available
5. Non-tumorous—tend not to form tumors
6. No harm done to the donor

Adult Stem Cell Disadvantages
1. Limited quantity—can sometimes be difficult to obtain in large numbers
2. Finite—may not live as long as ES cells in culture
3. Less flexible (with the exception of #1 above)—may be more difficult to reprogram to form other tissue types

Stem Cell Cures—and Failures in Humans
Adult stem cells are a “natural” solution. They naturally exist in our bodies, and they provide a natural repair mechanism for many tissues of our bodies.
They belong in the micro environment of an adult body, while embryonic stem cells belong in the micro environment of the early embryo, not in an adult body, where they tend to cause tumors and immune system reactions.
Most importantly, adult stem cells have already been successfully used in human therapies for many years. As of this moment, NO therapies in humans have ever been successfully carried out using embryonic stem cells. New therapies using adult type stem cells, on the other hand, are being developed all the time.
TREATMENTS FROM ADULT STEM CELLS
Spinal Cord Injury
Leukemia
Parkinson’s Disease
Regards,
Cicilia...

halo Cicil,
kalau pakai bahasa pasaran..

mungkin stem cell bisa dianggap cadangan Spare part..

jadi selama ini kita nggak bisa ganti spare part, sekarang sudah dimulai teknologi

pembiakan sel di luar tubuh,
penggantian sel rusak, dengan stem cell yg sudah jadi

dan seperti dipaparkan giggs di depan, mencari donor organ sangat sukar, permasalahan kecocokan organ donor dengan penerima juga banyak sekali..

stem cell menjawab masalah ini..

memang peluang disini menjadi sangat luas.

[Itachi]

Tetapi bisakah dengan Teori Baru atau (yg saya sebut penciptaan paralel jutaan spesies) menjawab konsekuensinya, apakah begitu?, bisakah hal ini di masukan logika dasar..

Tapi biasanya yg saya dapat dari teman2 jika tidak dapat menjawab.. ini rahasia Ilahi.. betapa sedih sang pencipta, kita diberi akal tapi malas berpikir, tapi begitulah kebanyakan manusia jika tidak dapat menjelaskan..
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Jangankan yang kreasionist yang evolutionist sendiri aja ragu dengan teori mereka sendiri... membuat bukti palsu yang dianggap fakta.

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa kita di ciptakan secara langsung khususnya manusia???

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa tidaklah mungkin RNA dan DNA ada secara kebetulan???

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa semua ini adalah hasil ciptaan???

Untuk evolusi tidak ada yang malas berpikir... pola pikir para evolutionst dan atheist adalah para kreationist itu malas berpikir dan berpangku tangan pada kitab suci dan menjadi dogma yang tidak dapat diubah. padahal tidak demikian. jangankan darwin yang membuat evolusi bukan kah para saintist dulu juga udah membuktikan bahwa makhluk hidup itu dari makhluk hidup.

Apakah alam semesta ini ada secara kebetulan??? Harus kah ada proses dari ketiadaaan menjadi ada??? Jika iya, bagaimana proses dari tiada menjadi ada??? bukankah sesuatu itu ada dibalik pencipta???

Apakah penciptaan makhluk hidup itu tidak masuk akal??? Jika ya apakah sains dapat menjawab dari mana alam semesta ini (kejadian sebelum big bang terjadi, kejadian sebelum seluruh atom bersatu)...???

Apakah mas bimbim mampu menjawab kejadian sebelum big bang tsb???

[bimbim]

Permisi pak dosen (Bim Bim)..!

Aku dari kelas ilmu sosial, angkatan 2009, mau ikut kelas Sains, boleh nggak?
Tapi kayaknya sulit, bahasanya terlalu teknis ya, itu kayak punya bro Giggs di #186 (sorry bro, no offense)...
Aku jadi penggembira saja lah...
***intel cari tempat duduk paling belakang***

welcome intel,

silahkan saja pakai gaya bahasa sendiri, memang kadang kita membahas satu topik yg butuh detil..

tapi sering juga bahas dalam perspektif meluas.

[bimbim]

Tetapi bisakah dengan Teori Baru atau (yg saya sebut penciptaan paralel jutaan spesies) menjawab konsekuensinya, apakah begitu?, bisakah hal ini di masukan logika dasar..

Tapi biasanya yg saya dapat dari teman2 jika tidak dapat menjawab.. ini rahasia Ilahi.. betapa sedih sang pencipta, kita diberi akal tapi malas berpikir, tapi begitulah kebanyakan manusia jika tidak dapat menjelaskan..
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Jangankan yang kreasionist yang evolutionist sendiri aja ragu dengan teori mereka sendiri... membuat bukti palsu yang dianggap fakta.

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa kita di ciptakan secara langsung khususnya manusia???

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa tidaklah mungkin RNA dan DNA ada secara kebetulan???

Apakah sulit menerima fakta bahwa semua ini adalah hasil ciptaan???

Untuk evolusi tidak ada yang malas berpikir... pola pikir para evolutionst dan atheist adalah para kreationist itu malas berpikir dan berpangku tangan pada kitab suci dan menjadi dogma yang tidak dapat diubah. padahal tidak demikian. jangankan darwin yang membuat evolusi bukan kah para saintist dulu juga udah membuktikan bahwa makhluk hidup itu dari makhluk hidup.

Apakah alam semesta ini ada secara kebetulan??? Harus kah ada proses dari ketiadaaan menjadi ada??? Jika iya, bagaimana proses dari tiada menjadi ada??? bukankah sesuatu itu ada dibalik pencipta???

Apakah penciptaan makhluk hidup itu tidak masuk akal??? Jika ya apakah sains dapat menjawab dari mana alam semesta ini (kejadian sebelum big bang terjadi, kejadian sebelum seluruh atom bersatu)...???

Apakah mas bimbim mampu menjawab kejadian sebelum big bang tsb???

itachi,
itu mungkin jika sang Pencipta suka guyon seperti kamu..

[artemis]

Permisi pak dosen (Bim Bim)..!

Aku dari kelas ilmu sosial, angkatan 2009, mau ikut kelas Sains, boleh nggak?
Tapi kayaknya sulit, bahasanya terlalu teknis ya, itu kayak punya bro Giggs di #186 (sorry bro, no offense)...
Aku jadi penggembira saja lah...
***intel cari tempat duduk paling belakang***

Duduknya deket-deket aku aja...biar aku bisa nyontek catatanmu...